Solar - Insane "Sustainability"

[glenncz]

Hi Friends, You want to see something completely incredible.
http://premium.fileden.com/premium/2009 ... ripoff.pdf
This is a proposal to install a solar plant in an industry. It was just proposed a few weeks ago for a medium sized industry. This is what you call insane "sustainability". They think it will make 29K of electricity (first column), and the State of Pa is willing to give the company 69K in renewable energy tax CREDITS, and that is only one small part of the whole SCAM. This is the "new way" of making electricity, so that our children can benefit from a better world. In the meantime, there goes the State and Federal Tax Revenue out the window. So we can either cut vital services that our society can provide or raise taxes on the shepple who are convinced this BOONDOGGLE is going to actually save them money. Global Warming we can argue all day long, but here is complete insanity in black and white. The white text on black are my own notes of explanation.

[Mike Davis]

Glennz:
Good to hear from you! Thank you for the link!
My issue with this goes beyond the obvious that you show with the money thing.
Solar Voltaic! Energy and labor are required to procure and manufacture the components needed for the project. Some of the chemicals and processes are extremely toxic. The majority of production happens in countries that do not have the environment restriction we do in the "Advanced regions" of the globe. I also do not see where they accounted for the maintenance of the panels to insure optimum performance and unless the panels are self cleaning that is a cost not included. Estimated life expectancy is another factor not included. Advocates seem to misplace detrimental factors and the opposition seem to promote the negative factors while down playing any positive benefits of these projects. Attempting to observe this from a non biased point of view and weighing all issues involved I came up with more negatives and the main positive benefits were money in the promoters pockets and a feel good feeling that over the long term will destroy the reputation of all those that signed off on this travesty forced on the regional society and the rest of the nation in the form of additional taxes that provided NO positive environmental benefits.

[Mike Davis]

Glenncz:
I forgot the minor point that if the Return on investment is in reality as great as claimed the promoters would invest their own money and not require government subsidies. If the process was so good we would already see Solar energy being used to produce the components needed for Solar panels.

[glenncz]

Yes Mike, i am sure that you "get it". But most people don't a clue that we can't make energy for a society by placing the burden of paying for it on the shoulders of our children and descendants. They will be paying the interest for these boondoggles forever more. Every solar panel and every wind turbine that is constructed simply weakens our society, because we can't pay for these things with real money, no one ever would, so we just use tax forgiveness and place the cost on our national debt. For some purchases this might make some sense, because there is a return on investment. But for alternative energy in general, absolutely NOTHING is produced. NOTHING! There is no increase in services or noticeable benefits to our society. Even the reduction of CO2 is extremely minimal, if any! There might be NO REDUCTION in CO2 for both solar and wind, that is what some of the studies show, even when followed with Natural Gas. (although I agree when followed with Hydro there would be a reduction, we can hope anyway, but actually I could care less about CO2, bring it on baby, because if it is coming, we aren't going to stop it, that I can assure you).

Amazing how in the last few months every single commercial has a wind turbine spinning, but wind energy is a product that NO ONE would every buy. Just about no one anyway. It is so incredibly expensive, and simply a stupid way to power a society, that not even a fool would build one, ONLY a society would do such a thing. Yet, the majority of our society thinks these turbines are something they want, and need. Of course, the proposal shows that Solar is completely off the charts compared to wind, it makes wind look economical. No matter, the greenies use every trick in the book to slow down our society, put the brakes on prosperity and progress, of course they call it progress what they are for, when in reality they want US to progress backwards. Mike we know that is the absolute truth, yet the dumb common man just smiles at the wind turbines, thinking that the society is smarter than he is, why bother to even look into it.

[Mike Davis]

Glenncz:
I know of 4 miles of ridgeline that will not be graced by monuments to stupidity and it is probably a lot more because folks around these parts don't cotton to strange contraptions. My Grandfather passed away in the 60s and never had electricity. I live next to the second lake formed by a dam that TVA built that forced people from their land starting in the early 30s. Then land was taken for The Smokies National Park. Then the Government took land for Oak Ridge. I live within 40 miles of those. People have long memories here as well as it being in the heart of Shine Country. It is the City folks moving in we worry about and I was only accepted because my great grandmother was raised 3 miles from my house. My father was raised across the lake and his father's land was taken for the lake. My mother was raised 30 miles away.

You mentioned dams. The CO2 released in the manufacture process for concrete and released by crushing rocks should be taken into account. The difference between aquatic and land biota in the lake environment behind the dam. The whole environmental impact thing stopped another dam from being built on the Colorado River between Boulder Dam and Glenn Canyon Dam. I think the long term benefits outweigh the impacts of hydro power,, Hydro carbon power, and Nuclear. Strip mining has converted a lot of unusable land into productive land. They can present the number of acres or sq miles disturbed by strip mining and claim toxic materials released. The overall percentage of land in process is minor. The long term after effect is more accessibility and even the settlement ponds, to control erosion and release of "Toxic" materials into the "existing" area, become fishing holes. The so called "toxic material" is natural and exists in the land. It would reach the surface during erosion any way through natural processes and the hydrocarbon fuels we are using would just be wasted by erosion any way. The methane (natural gas) would leak from the ground eventually as well as the oil. At least we are putting it to some use.
The main issue with Solar that seems to be over looked is the "Toxic materials and process" used for producing the photovoltaic panels.
One of my neighbors was into sustainability and only had propane delivered to the house for cooking and a propane refrigerator. Water was heated either by wood or solar. The husband passed away and the wife had electric put into the house. They were city raised and part of the back to nature culture. she learned the hard way the lesson of technical advances provided by Fossil fuels extend lives and are part of healthier living. Living healthier by living off the land is a fantasy. The regressive nature of the Green movement may result in people needing to return to that life style.