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Opposing Views: Solar Climate Change: The Fraudulent Business of Earthquake and Eruption Prediction by Erik Klemetti: Updated by Piers Corbyn
Sunday, April 22nd 2012, 8:21 AM EDT
Co2sceptic (Site Admin)
Image AttachmentImagine this conversation:

Me: I can predict the outcome of soccer matches! I’ve been watching the clouds and when they take a certain form, I claim I can predict when a goal is going to be scored — and I’ve been right many times before!
You: That sounds impressive…. But wait, can I see one of your predictions?
Me: Sure! I see that the clouds will become thicker later in the week, so I can confidently predict that a goal will be scored somewhere in the Premier League sometime across the weekend.
You: How can I be sure you’re right about this?
Me: Look, the last time I predicted this, I was right! In fact, I’m right almost 50 percent of the time. That’s incredible, right?
You: I suppose, but what about all the times you were wrong?
Me: Does that matter, I get them right, too, so I must be onto something. So, want to pay me money to make these predictions for you?

How many of you would fall for this? Hopefully not many, but if you look at the internet, you’ll find a number of people trying to say they can predict earthquakes and volcanoes across the planet, yet they are doing almost exactly what I said I could do for the Premier League. It is fraudulent, unscientific and wrong.


Updated below with comments from Piers Corbyn

Article continues below this advert:

Listen, I love the interwebs. It provides more information at your fingertips than almost anything in the history of civilization. However, it is also very easy to manipulate people’s opinions because there is just so much information out there. You type in the words “volcanic eruption” into Google, you get over 3.3 million results. How can you sift through that all if you don’t know where to start — especially when it comes to discerning reliable sources from crackpots. If you’re interested in natural disasters, even a simple search shows you a large population on the web of people who claim (or want to believe) that they can predict when an earthquake or eruption will happen. This is different than stating the probability of such an event — this is what volcanic monitoring organization and geologic surveys do for natural hazards. For example, after looking at the signs of activity at a volcano (earthquakes, gas emissions, etc.), they say that an eruption may happen in days to weeks. What I’m talking about are these predictions that say that based on some criteria unrelated to the volcano or fault in question, an earthquake or eruption will occur on a specific date (or narrow window). Typically these predictions are vague, rarely saying too specifically where or exactly when the event will happen. Usually these predictions also have multiple windows of opportunity in a given month for their “massive earthquake or eruption.” They are not talking about probability, but rather specific prediction of geologic events.

And that, folks, is not possible. You cannot predict, weeks in advance, specifically when an earthquake or eruption will occur. Let’s put that to rest.

Let’s take a moment and look at some of these predictions. Here is one from Piers Corbyn, a so-called predictor of weather and geologic events based on the activity of the sun. This is the prediction for April 2012. (By the way, he sells his predictions to those foolish enough to believe him.)

Image Attachment


What does it say. Well, between Apr. 8 and 10, there is a “very high” threat of an earthquake or eruption in the Pacific ring, maybe in the northern hemisphere. The earthquake is like to be M6.5 or higher. Here is what actually happened:

Image Attachment


But wait, this “window of prediction” was called a confirmation of Corbyn’s method because the M8+ earthquakes off Banda Aceh in Indonesia occurred on … Apr. 11. That is almost the right date, right? It is almost the right hemisphere! Who cares that there were hundreds of earthquakes in the Pacific and Indian rim every day. Who cares that each year, there are over 150 earthquakes over M6.5 or greater, meaning you pick any day of the year, you might have a 1-in-3 chance of picking the right one. Who cares that in your other “windows” nothing happened. This is what we call “cherry picking” the data to fit your prediction, rather than using the data to assess your validity. Make the window big enough and your “prediction” broad enough, you can claim “success” almost every time.


Click source for more!!(I'm not sure if Erik Klemetti agreed with what he set out to do)
Source Link: wired.com/wiredscience
Comments section below this advert:

Comments

Have Your Say

Posted by Co2sceptic (forum) on Apr 22nd 2012, 8:43 AM EDT
What Erik Klemetti failed to say and did NOT do was to state that we posted the prediction for the 11th April on the 7th Solar Climate Change: Is Earth's Easter period (8th - 10th April) due for a shake down? and that Piers states as these dates are done weeks ahead we use "one day each way".

The actual Earthquake and Volcano trial for April was produced in MARCH

Never mind Erik Klemetti, nice try!
Posted by Piers Corbyn (Twitter) on Apr 22nd 2012, 10:55 AM EDT
It is sad when academics - Yes I jest not this malevolent rage comes form someone sporting the label of Professor of Geosciences - attack evidence-based science and issue libelous statements and misrepresentations of research work.
I listed under Comment number 7 of:

http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=9452&linkbox=true&position=3

reportage of verification (M6.6) of the present 21-24th QV risk period and six points of misrepresentation / Failure by this modern academic of the "I-don't-know-how-it's-done-therefore-it-is-not-being-done" variety of a department of Arrogance and/or Geoscience etc.
I would urge people to have a look and raise points wherever, and comment on how should brazen libels like this one be dealt with?

Thanks Piers
Posted by Joe Olson (forum) on Apr 22nd 2012, 11:22 AM EDT
An Earthquake can only come from changes in the mantle pressure. Volcanos can only erupt with changes in mantle pressure. The 259 trillion cubic miles of mostly molten rock in our Earth has 2 million cubic miles of fissionable material that has a varying 'decay' rate, which is in part controlled by particle bombardments. The Sun has a variable output in solar particle discharges. Changes in Earth's fission rate produce added heat, added elemental gases and added pressure. That there is linkage between solar events and tectonic events seem self evident....well....excepting over indoctrinated academics. It must be disturbing to never be able to see the evolution of Truth. There is nothing worse than self imposed ignorance.
Posted by Antony Fendt (Twitter) on Apr 23rd 2012, 3:17 AM EDT
Piers ... "Assistant" professor none the less ! I notice at the source that all of his colleagues have come to support this junior lecturer. Everybody is a professor on US campuses !
Posted by ManBear Pigg (Twitter) on Apr 23rd 2012, 7:24 AM EDT
I just put the post on the Wired website ... I bet that doesn't make it past the moderators either.

Piers is prepared to put his money where his mouth is, are you ?
Posted by Piers Corbyn (Twitter) on Apr 23rd 2012, 11:53 PM EDT
Thanks ManBearPig! I have now posted another bit on the Libel site which is awaiting moderation. The comments are getting quite fun there, and I thank ClimateRealist readers - who unanimously sport an actual scientific approach - here for their witty and objective postings.
The other side seem to be getting into more and more of a tizzwizz and keep on calling up people with labels who comment on the lines (and I paraphrase a sort of collective comment) "I'm important, I have a label, I havn't really looked at this stuff but I KNOW it can't be done because I don't see how it can be done but don't take it from me I might not be that important but others have tried and failed and THEORY shows it can't be done therefore it isn't being done and I'm not going to look further...."

(In response to a comment from John Vidale)

Very foolish stuff sir.

1. The fact that you (or anyone) do not see or have a theory to explain something does not mean it cannot happen.

2. The fact you havn't bothered to look properly for reportage of our trails on earthquakes doesn't mean they don't exist.

3. We stand for evidence based science not the anti-science of appeals to authority who have so far failed to predict:-

(i) Extreme weather events;
whereas we have demonstrated significant skill in this, see independent verification on our website which includes consistent winning of weather bets under Forecast Accuracy and reportage under News.

(ii) Periods of increased incidence of MAJOR Earthquakes;
whereas we have demonstrated skill on this and I copy below a comment on ClimateRealists site (which carries the reportage rather than WeatherAction site for largely historical reasons).
But before we get to that I have to say I am totally bemused that you guys should get so upset by our public trials of difficult work. Let us be clear the thing we are looking for is a predictor of periods of the most extreme quakes (and Volcanoes) and these are our RQ4 and RQ5 periods which are related to the R4 and R5 weather periods but not always the same. In the trails we also put in lesser quake risk periods. But rather than look at the results you guys fly into arrogant little rages and misrepresent what we say and do. Why? What seems to be the problem? as the doctor asked.
It is totally disingenuous [=dishonest and I am now deliberately annoying you guys with pseudo-legal parlance to remind you that EK's and DM's remarks and claims are gratuitously damaging (=libelous) against me personally and the business of WeatherAction, the damage being dependent on how many (or few!) read this site] to muddle what we are seeking ie prediction of increases in some measure of EXTREME quakes with all the others (which are also being considered but they are not the same); and utterly pathetic to cherry-pick ONE result which you claimed was failure (although you hadn't read what we said) as assessment of all we are doing. It is also barmy to moan about the chance odds against success we choose, narrow AND broader +/- half day and +/- one day at shorter odds to try and see what might be going on in a broad sense too. The 'odds' are NOT the issue, in science the question is can we beat the odds?
It is also anti-scientific to put your pet (and largely failed) theories above scientific trials. Theory counts for zero in scientific tests.

We are awaiting a response to my challenge for you to place bets - yes money against a set of our key stated trial forecasts in the future. If we have skill we win money and you lose money; and if we lose you win money. We did this on UK weather events with the Met Office setting William Hill's odds (which were then shortened by William Hill so they under normal chance circumstances would make 25% profit). This went on for 12 years and we made loads although we were stake limited. William Hill then terminated the arrangement and refuse to restart it. For you guys lets do it for one year at say stakes of around £600 per month (that was the William Hill stake limit), or would you suggest a figure?

Now that independent unsolicited comment:-
on http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=9340

Posted by theGingerZilla (Twitter) on Mar 26th 2012, 6:37 PM EDT
Tom, forecasts stops in Mar 2010 as you have not subscribed. Subscribers get full access. Piers makes no bones about that as he has to make a living - he doesn't use advertising which is to his credit.

Having watched Piers forecasts as a sceptic, I have to say his Q/q (and v) TRIAL periods show a significant correlation. M4.5+ are much higher during these periods. Instead of sniping from the sidelines keep some actual figures on M4.5+ or M6 and see for yourself. I'd suggest at least 3 months (I kept going beyond that) and see how Piers holds up. He doesn't hide as you can see he posts the predictions on here. He is also not alone in his theory:

http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/michele-casati-acapulco-earthquake-successfully-predicted/

I honestly thought it was dartboard stuff (i.e. pick a date and you'd be right somewhere) but it is more than that. There's plenty on this site to read about the 'solar kick'.

I believe, after a year of watching his earthquake predictions, that there really is something to it. He is also getting much better. He will also say when he is wrong and will see why it didn't work - it's not like CO2 theory where everything [b]depends[b] on it being right or the funding stops (i.e. drought, or deluge, heat or snow are all caused by CO2) - and if you engage him, instead of sniping, I'm sure he'll talk you through the basics of the theory. It is, as he says, a TRAIL (very important to remember this) and not 100% nor is it dogma that cannot be challenged. If you want to 'challenge' him, engage him on the basis he is conducting the trial - solar/lunar influences(note this is not just sunspots/CME etc). Any theory can be proven or disproven on the basis you have tried but ridicule is not science (unless you are CO2 deluded and have something to hide?). By all means disprove him but use some facts not conjecture (if you referred to USGS/Spaceweather in how you challenged his work fine - you did not* nor did you use facts or figures). Sniping is easy but a conversation is always always a much better way. It's something the CO2 brigade have forgotten about - talking/communicating. Divine kings could not be challenged nor can the CO2 deluded. If I want to be shouted at I'll listen to some screamo metal music ;) I may not always like what I read here - I find the support for Republicans hard to take, based purely on climate policy a concern (I believe in sustainability, just not CO2 delusions) - but I'd rather engage than just dismiss. We are, just like you, human beings. Instead of treating people here, or Piers, like deluded idiots (sadly I must say CO2 is for deluded idiots, no matter how ell intentioned) why not try talking to us? This is just like the Heartland faked document - we are not 'anti-climate' nor 'anti-science.'

I hope you take this in the spirit it was intended and try to engage not just dismiss.

Thanks

* how many M4.5 in those q/Q periods, how many M5+, How many M6/7+ - did you compare this to the non q/Q periods. You didn't do this so why should I take what you said seriously? If you can please let us see it.

Comment edited by theGingerZilla (Twitter) on Monday March 26, 2012 at 6:39 PM EDT
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